How did you guys get hooked up with Marky Ramone? (Ramone produced the Bullys’ debut album, Stomposition, in 1998)
Joey: Pure coincidence.
He was actually working with a band in the studio in Brooklyn and we just happened to book that studio. Actually we went down to check out the studio to record the first Bullys album, and low and behold, who comes walking out of the place? Marky Ramone. It’s like, we all froze. So Johnny (Heff) had a demo on cassette of some of the Bullys stuff that we were going to use in the studio, or to give to the producer or engineer or whatever, to listen to. I think he gave it to Marky and said, you know, could you listen to it, you know? And from what I remember, I think Marky listened to the demo and called us up and said, ‘I’d like to help you guys produce this.’ We were just like, what?!
And when was this?
Joey: It had to be 1997 or 1998, I’m not sure. So we go to make arrangements with Marky to come in and produce the CD and it was kind of strange, because our biggest problem at the time was we really didn’t have a lot of money. And we went with the studio because it was cheap. It was a low fee per hour and it was a really decent studio for the money so that’s why we were there. And now we have to pay Marky. I mean, he obviously did it for, like, a low budget fee, but we had to pay him, too, for the work. So we did it in record time. I think it was like 30 hours or something. It was a ridiculously short amount of time and we just went in and banged the whole CD out, you know, and it is what it is. You know, it wasn’t our best, it wasn’t our worst but I think it holds up. The other thing was, at the time we were so anxious to get a CD out, because everyone had a CD we needed something to represent the band. We didn’t really have anything so we used songs we probably weren’t totally happy with but that’s what we had so we just went in and recorded ten songs on the album. Half of them I’m really not happy with, but that’s what we had. We didn’t have anything to choose from!
Danny: “Stomposition”? Greatest cover of all time.
Joey: (Laughs) We didn’t have much to choose from, which, most bands, you know, try to take fifteen or twenty songs and whittle it down to ten. We had ten! So we went in with ten! That was it!
Danny: That’s seven more than the Stooges had for “Funhouse”.
Joey: We put the better songs at the beginning of the CD so we figured, you know, nobody would get through the first two or three songs anyway! And we were sending that - that was a CD that was being sent out as a demo, but it was a well-made demo. You know, we did it in the studio. I mean, Johnny, we could have sent something out from the rehearsal but, you know, we needed something a little better than that. So basically, that’s how we met Marky, and that’s how we started our friendship with him.
What about the other Ramones? I know you performed with Joey before. (The Bullys performed at Joey Ramone’s last show before he passed away - December 2000, at the Continental).
Joey: Yeah, basically we all did Joey’s last birthday bash, no, it was the Christmas show. The way that came about was, we were dying to get on that bill, to get on any of Joey’s shows, you know. And we were just networking and trying to get to know people at the time and we had heard that Joey was gonna come down and see one of our shows. We were like, wow this is gonna be good because if he sees us, he’s definitely going to put us on. Well, he ends up missing our set! But he came down anyway at the Continental. It was at the end of the night. I’ll make a long story short. And we were so bummed because we knew that he didn’t show up, because it was like, ‘Did Joey show up? Where’s Joey?’ We didn’t think he was coming. He ended up coming later on, and he actually came over and apologized to us for missing our set but he says - actually I have to do this because it’s my best memory of it,
cause he was standing over, you know Joey could stand over there and you’d know it cause he’s the tallest guy in the room, and Johnny and I were at the bar and the place was pretty empty and, you know, it was the end of the night, and everybody was leaving, packing up. And Joey, you know, Johnny and I were standing there like, ‘There’s Joey! There’s Joey!’ Joey comes walking over to us, and I go, ‘He’s coming over! Joey’s coming over!’ We’re trying to be cool. So Joey comes over and he goes, and he was very awkward about, you know Joey, he just didn’t know how to - so he came over and he just says, “Eh, uh, you guys a couple of Bullys?” You know, like that real Queens, like, “You guys are da Bullys?” And we were like, “yeah, hey what’s up Joey?” You know, we kind of introduced ourselves and stuff. And he’s like, “I’m really sorry I missed your set but I heard a lot of good things about you guys.” And then we got on his Christmas show. That’s how we got on the show. I don’t know if it was out of, you know, that he did it as a favor, or he felt bad that he missed the set but he put us on.
And you guys performed after him, right?
Joey: After his set? I don’t remember. I don’t remember! I would imagine that we did, but I don’t know. But in any case, I mean, it was just cool being a part of that. And that night we actually got to hang out with him, and talk with him. There’s actually a picture of Johnny Heff and Joey Ramone (in PUNK Magazine #19). That’s the night. And shortly after that he got really sick. He broke his hip and we really didn’t see him after that. It’s a shame because I truly believe that if he were still around, we would probably be doing some stuff with Joey, which is what we really wanted to do. We wanted to really get his attention. He was working with The Independents at the time, you know. I really think we were really doing stuff that he would have related to. The Independents weren’t doing anything that was really like The Ramones or anything. I never understood that. Joey really latched onto them. I don’t understand what it was all about. I don’t even know what their relationship was. I mean, we were real New Yorkers, you know, punk rock n’ roll band. Maybe that was not good for us as far as Joey was concerned, maybe he just wanted to distance himself from that. Because he was doing it for so long maybe he wanted to do something different, I don’t know. We’ll never know.
Danny: We’ve gotten the support of Andy (Shernoff, The Dictators) and Jeff (Magnum, Dead Boys). Both of those guys, I mean, for the amount of time that I’ve been in the band, those guys are always around and helping us.
Joey: For people like them to recognize us and what we do is… that’s the pay off right there. You know, I mean these guys accept us -
Danny: They play our records in their car!
Joey: Yeah, and now they understand what we do and they give us the thumbs up and that’s cool for us. That makes it all worth what we do, cause we don’t make any money! But it’s not about the money. I read something many, many years ago it said, you know, if you’re getting into the music business or you want to play music, do it because you love it. Don’t do it to become famous -
Danny: You’d have to be a masochist to do this if you’re doing it for that!
Joey: Yeah! Don’t do it to make money because if that’s your reason you’re going to suffer. You’re not going to do it. That’s why a lot of people that were in bands and stuff just gave it up, because they wanted to make a living out of it. And if they couldn’t do that there was no plan B. It was, I’m either going to make it or I’m just gonna go be a technician or something, I don’t know. I mean, look at the old blues guys! They never made any money. Those guys were poor, and here they are. I mean, Muddy Waters, you know, as long as he can still play a guitar he’s going to play. That was the reason to do it. He loved it.
There’s also the issue of having integrity, and not selling out.
Danny:
Selling out, the term for me, when people say “sell out” - I mean, The Clash never sold out. They just grew up. The fact that the rest of the world caught up with their vision, that’s good for the world but that doesn’t mean… I mean, did Blondie sell out or did Blondie grow up and know how to market themselves to do what they did. I mean, selling out’s like, I don’t like the term, cause a lot of bands… you’re expecting kids under eighteen to do the same thing when they’re 28, you know what I mean. That’s ridiculous.
I think a lot of younger fans think that way, though.
Danny: But that’s youth, that’s not… I mean, kids are like, ‘Walk it, talk it, do it!’ Yeah, cause you guys never saw a ConEd bill at the end of the month. You know what I mean, eventually the reality of what life is like changes stuff. They might bug out that there’s a Clash song on a commercial but you know, every month Paul’s gotta see a bill, right, from ConEd. I mean, God bless him and let him pay the thing, you now what I mean. Selling out? It’s like, not really.
Joey: Basically, the only reason why we’re sitting here right now is because we don’t care about the money thing and the fame. We truly do what we do because we love to do it. We don’t care about the money. We’ve been doing this for ten years, and it doesn’t - we’re not supported by the band. The band supports itself, and yet the individual members are not supported by the band.
Danny: It’s about love. Ten years is about love. That’s not about material shit, that’s about love.
Joey: And camaraderie. And, reverse, to rewind a little, that’s why we didn’t have a guitar player for so long. Because it wasn’t only about that we weren’t ready for one, number one. But number two, when we were ready it wasn’t that there weren’t a lot of guys out there that couldn’t play, because we did audition guitar players. But the one thing that bothered us was personality wise, they just were not a Bully. They just didn’t fit with the rest of the band. And Danny was the first guy who came in and we were like, “This guy’s personality is just like the rest of the band’s.” So that was important to us. It has to be. Otherwise the guy’s not going to be happy, and he’s just gonna leave. So we’re not going to waste our time.
Danny, do you feel a better fit with The Bullys than the other bands you were in?
Danny: That’s hard for me to put into context because most of the bands - the guys that have been around the Bullys since day one (accepted me).
Joey: They all raved about Danny.
Danny: Yeah, they made me feel at home right away.
Joey: We listened to these guys and they’re like, “Dude, your new guitar player is fucking awesome!” It fits perfectly. And we knew we had the right guy.
Danny: If someone like that says it’s a seamless transition, that’s the biggest compliment they can give. It doesn’t seem like things missed a beat. They went up a step. And that’s cool. Cause with anything, with five people, you blended your colors, and it makes the whole picture better.
Joey: You know, Johnny was almost a front man of the band at the time. You know, he was really the one up front and taking it all for himself, which is fine. We understood that. He had that whole… He loved what he did, he wrote the songs. So when he finally got up onstage, he wanted payback. His payback was rocking out and getting the audience involved and everything. Usually the singer is the front guy. But I kind of stepped aside for John, you know, because in our band he was the front man. And we let him be that. And it’s unusual to have a rhythm guitar player, you know, out there in everybody’s face and jumping around, and now Danny steps into that. He just doesn’t stand there and play rhythm guitar. He’s all over the place. He’s like Daffy Duck! He’s like all over the place! Half the time I’m like, “Where’s Danny?” Sometimes he’s behind me, sometimes he’s on top of me.
Danny: How do you stand still? How the fuck do you stand still?
Joey: But we need that! We need that, you know. Listen, we all have our different personalities and stuff and that’s what’s great.
Danny: Nah, but, pound for pound everybody - a lot of musicians come to the shows and they all say the same thing. I don’t know what it was like beforehand, but -
Joey: It was boring! (Laughs)
Danny: But nobody does what we do the way that we do.
Joey: We tried to keep the Bullys out there, but it was tough with one guitar. A lot of bands do it. You know, The Cyclones (NYC punk band) they play with the guitar and a drum, and they’re like one of my favorite bands. I couldn’t be in a band with a singer, a guitar player, and a drummer. For instance, if the Cyclones had a singer. I couldn’t do that, you know? I mean, I love those guys. They rock. But even on their studio album, they have - Walt came in on Cyclones new album and played second guitar. So why… my thing is, it’s gotta be in your face. It’s gotta be a full, big, giant thing. And that’s what the Bullys always were.
